rolling road results 15/05/11

Andy Kindon wrote:

jamie@evotune wrote:

Andy Kindon wrote:

i think duncans pretty much summed it up with all the variable inputs that can alter the final figure on a given set of rollers, my mates standard evo 8 (apart from decat and panel filter) ran 403 bhp on evotunes rollers mapped by jamie, good result for an almost standard car, thats around 75bhp+ more on same rollers than a spec c impreza with remap jesus them evos must be quick

If it was a Evo 8 the 403HP will be with the 24% MLR transmission loss not a DD estimated flywheel figure the car in question should be a Evo 8 MR with that sort of power and yes the normal power output for them with a Decat,Walbro,panel or cone filter and a 3 port boost solenoid is 400HP they can run 1.85-1.9 bar peak no problem.

On another note Evo 9's can run 420HP with the same mods at a similar boost pressure with 1.8 bar seen by 3.2K rpm due to the Mivec.

yes thats right bud its an EVO 8 MR, im not debating if that power is correct as it does go quite well, holds around 1.8bar too just pointing out that peak horsepower on a rolling road doesnt quite relate to how a car performs on road, iv always taken RR power runs as a rough guide but alot of peeps do take the result (peak hp) as to how quick the car will be on the road which isnt quite the case

Andy

Yes I agree Andy peak HP is not a true reflection of the engines performance I always try to map a car so it hangs onto power and torque as much as possible,keeping the torque up is really the key to a good road car which is sometimes hard with small turbos.

helmetchoker wrote:

are the dynos not meant to be calibrated everyday or atleast once a week as the tools at my workplace are calibrated every morning..

The Government only stipulate that MOT equipment is calibrated every 6 months I think calibrating a Dyno that really is only used to measure engine performance everyday is a bit unnecessary really as it is not saftey related.

I think sum people forget a Dyno is a tuning tool, not just for chucking out bhp-torque figures.and is used for a lot more than RR graphs

As with everything if ya put the rite info in you've got a good back ground to get accurate info out, and you'll be able to see any drops,spikes etc in the power run throughout the rev range.

drew wrote:

I think sum people forget a Dyno is a tuning tool, not just for chucking out bhp-torque figures.and is used for a lot more than RR graphs

As with everything if ya put the rite info in you've got a good back ground to get accurate info out, and you'll be able to see any drops,spikes etc in the power run throughout the rev range.

totally agree but surely if your paying money to have a RR graph you want it to be accurate ..

helmetchoker wrote:

drew wrote:

I think sum people forget a Dyno is a tuning tool, not just for chucking out bhp-torque figures.and is used for a lot more than RR graphs

As with everything if ya put the rite info in you've got a good back ground to get accurate info out, and you'll be able to see any drops,spikes etc in the power run throughout the rev range.

totally agree but surely if your paying money to have a RR graph you want it to be accurate ..

I think anyone that pays over £60k for a piece of workshop equipment try's to make it as acurate as possible with the exeption of some.

I for one try and keep everything the same when testing a car so you can have a good comparison to work from after doing more mods.

The only true way to get a engine's power output is to have it ran on a engine Dyno but even then that will be in controlled conditions so again is not a true reflection on power output as the variables will change when fitted back into the car.

Put you right foot to the floor and it makes you smile enough bhp

cdm1 wrote:

Put you right foot to the floor and it makes you smile enough bhp

agreed not bothered as long as it beats the local evo owners long enuf to give them the finger thats good enough

helmetchoker wrote:

drew wrote:

I think sum people forget a Dyno is a tuning tool, not just for chucking out bhp-torque figures.and is used for a lot more than RR graphs

As with everything if ya put the rite info in you've got a good back ground to get accurate info out, and you'll be able to see any drops,spikes etc in the power run throughout the rev range.

totally agree but surely if your paying money to have a RR graph you want it to be accurate ..

The key is not necessarily accurate as without taking the engine out and measuring it on an engine dyno you wont get a fully 100% accurate figure but you can minimise the inaccuracies by ensuring that the car is reasonably well strapped down, has the right barometric pressure input on the system, has the intake temp sensor in the right place.

Simple garbage in garbage out scenario. If data in right then it will give an honest figure.

dynamix wrote:

helmetchoker wrote:

drew wrote:

I think sum people forget a Dyno is a tuning tool, not just for chucking out bhp-torque figures.and is used for a lot more than RR graphs

As with everything if ya put the rite info in you've got a good back ground to get accurate info out, and you'll be able to see any drops,spikes etc in the power run throughout the rev range.

totally agree but surely if your paying money to have a RR graph you want it to be accurate ..

The key is not necessarily accurate as without taking the engine out and measuring it on an engine dyno you wont get a fully 100% accurate figure but you can minimise the inaccuracies by ensuring that the car is reasonably well strapped down, has the right barometric pressure input on the system, has the intake temp sensor in the right place.

Simple garbage in garbage out scenario. If data in right then it will give an honest figure.

ohh in no way am i doubting your work mate as it speaks for itself just i agree itl be a little out but some of the results are massivly out and seem unrealistic thats all

jamie@evotune wrote:

helmetchoker wrote:

are the dynos not meant to be calibrated everyday or atleast once a week as the tools at my workplace are calibrated every morning..

The Government only stipulate that MOT equipment is calibrated every 6 months I think calibrating a Dyno that really is only used to measure engine performance everyday is a bit unnecessary really as it is not saftey related.

Yeah but people work fooking hard to pay for their toys to be right and then have the car placed on a rolling road at an expense so imho i dont think it matters if it's safety related or not a calibration every 1/4 should be a must in that the service u offer shud be precise not just a guestimate!

the-muttz-nutz wrote:

jamie@evotune wrote:

helmetchoker wrote:

are the dynos not meant to be calibrated everyday or atleast once a week as the tools at my workplace are calibrated every morning..

The Government only stipulate that MOT equipment is calibrated every 6 months I think calibrating a Dyno that really is only used to measure engine performance everyday is a bit unnecessary really as it is not saftey related.

Yeah but people work fooking hard to pay for their toys to be right and then have the car placed on a rolling road at an expense so imho i dont think it matters if it's safety related or not a calibration every 1/4 should be a must in that the service u offer shud be precise not just a guestimate!

Dyno Dynamics don't actualy stipulate a calibration interval on there equipment it is down to the owner to get it done.

You will put your family in your car that has to have a MOT every year and the equipment used to test it is calibrated every 6 months but yet the equipment used to measure you cars power output you want measuring every 3 months

nobody talking about an MOT mate every car that had the RR on your dyno was obviously road worthy.. as ive said telling somone the wrong bhp can cause problems but tbh is that what your trying to do so theyl book there car into your place to be looked at?
i dont want to be told my cars running 450bhp then to uprate more parts ready for 500 to find out its only 350.. in this instance accuracy is absolute key and its doesnt look like its being shown here ..

i work 14 hour days for my money and i dont wana be filled full of rubbish when i get my car done as ive worked hard for that money.. again i dont mean to be rude mate but it looks like your taking people for a ride

helmetchoker wrote:

nobody talking about an MOT mate every car that had the RR on your dyno was obviously road worthy.. as ive said telling somone the wrong bhp can cause problems but tbh is that what your trying to do so theyl book there car into your place to be looked at?
i dont want to be told my cars running 450bhp then to uprate more parts ready for 500 to find out its only 350.. in this instance accuracy is absolute key and its doesnt look like its being shown here ..

i work 14 hour days for my money and i dont wana be filled full of rubbish when i get my car done as ive worked hard for that money.. again i dont mean to be rude mate but it looks like your taking people for a ride

Not all the cars we do are road cars we do a lot of race cars also that dont have to have a MOT.

To be honest mate I could not give two s**t's if you or anyone else for that matter bring your car to us I will not fill anyone with bull s**t and fail to see how I take anyone for a ride.

I work 7 days a week to get where I am now and it really p***e's me off when people like you who have not got a clue what they are takling about come on a public forum and pretend they know everything there is to know about tuning cars when all they really know is what they have read on a Internet forum.

jamie@evotune wrote:

helmetchoker wrote:

nobody talking about an MOT mate every car that had the RR on your dyno was obviously road worthy.. as ive said telling somone the wrong bhp can cause problems but tbh is that what your trying to do so theyl book there car into your place to be looked at?
i dont want to be told my cars running 450bhp then to uprate more parts ready for 500 to find out its only 350.. in this instance accuracy is absolute key and its doesnt look like its being shown here ..

i work 14 hour days for my money and i dont wana be filled full of rubbish when i get my car done as ive worked hard for that money.. again i dont mean to be rude mate but it looks like your taking people for a ride

Not all the cars we do are road cars we do a lot of race cars also that dont have to have a MOT.

To be honest mate I could not give two s**t's if you or anyone else for that matter bring your car to us I will not fill anyone with bull s**t and fail to see how I take anyone for a ride.


I work 7 days a week to get where I am now and it really p***e's me off when people like you who have not got a clue what they are takling about come on a public forum and pretend they know everything there is to know about tuning cars when all they really know is what they have read on a Internet forum.

im not trying to know everything mate im just going off what ive read people getting bhp figures from you and there 40+ bhp out which doesnt seem right imho i mean come on 185bhp out thats ridiculous..

so basically what your saying is that what ive read on this forum the people on here are full of sh*t.. you say that people like me come on a forum and read whats on here from the likes of drew jonny gav etc and think there full off sh*t thats a good example to set mate sorry for saying so but calling guys on a forum full of sh*t isnt very good.. when all guys are doing is asking the question as to why there bhp figures are so wildly exagurated on your dyno that you used thats all.. personally i think somethings wrong when youve got quite a few guys on here questioning your figures

helmetchoker wrote:

jamie@evotune wrote:

helmetchoker wrote:

nobody talking about an MOT mate every car that had the RR on your dyno was obviously road worthy.. as ive said telling somone the wrong bhp can cause problems but tbh is that what your trying to do so theyl book there car into your place to be looked at?
i dont want to be told my cars running 450bhp then to uprate more parts ready for 500 to find out its only 350.. in this instance accuracy is absolute key and its doesnt look like its being shown here ..

i work 14 hour days for my money and i dont wana be filled full of rubbish when i get my car done as ive worked hard for that money.. again i dont mean to be rude mate but it looks like your taking people for a ride

Not all the cars we do are road cars we do a lot of race cars also that dont have to have a MOT.

To be honest mate I could not give two s**t's if you or anyone else for that matter bring your car to us I will not fill anyone with bull s**t and fail to see how I take anyone for a ride.


I work 7 days a week to get where I am now and it really p***e's me off when people like you who have not got a clue what they are takling about come on a public forum and pretend they know everything there is to know about tuning cars when all they really know is what they have read on a Internet forum.

im not trying to know everything mate im just going off what ive read people getting bhp figures from you and there 40+ bhp out which doesnt seem right imho i mean come on 185bhp out thats ridiculous..

so basically what your saying is that what ive read on this forum the people on here are full of sh*t.. you say that people like me come on a forum and read whats on here from the likes of drew jonny gav etc and think there full off sh*t thats a good example to set mate sorry for saying so but calling guys on a forum full of sh*t isnt very good.. when all guys are doing is asking the question as to why there bhp figures are so wildly exagurated on your dyno that you used thats all.. personally i think somethings wrong when youve got quite a few guys on here questioning your figures

The 185hp difference is not from my Dyno mate it is from Motorscope I think you are getting mixed up somewhere and I have known Jonny for over 13 years probably a lot longer than you infact I have done work on quite a few of his cars many years ago, Drew and Duncan also use my Dyno often without any issues.

I think you need to do a bit of searching on the Internet about me before you start acusing me of taking people for a ride as you will find out I am not like that.

im not at all saying that if you read the post i even said your more than confident and great at what you do no doubt in that what was said was why so much diffrence thats all ?? im under no illusion that your good at what you do .. as people wouldnt come to you it just looks like some people onn here arent happy with diffrent resuts thats all

helmetchoker wrote:

im not at all saying that if you read the post i even said your more than confident and great at what you do no doubt in that what was said was why so much diffrence thats all ?? im under no illusion that your good at what you do .. as people wouldnt come to you it just looks like some people onn here arent happy with diffrent resuts thats all

You will get different results no matter what Dyno you use it's as simple as that if you dont like the results from us don't use simple as that.

it was a simple question mate noting more but from your attitude i wont be using you as i expect good customer service and thats not whats being shown here

I've had my car on Jamie's rollers twice now. I've worked in the motor trade for nearly 25 years now and though I certainly don't class myself as an expert on tuning and rollers, I can spot a cowboy a mile off, and Jamie is most certainly not one of those. If you take a look at his premises you'll see what a professional outfit it is with a lot of time and money invested in equipment which is highly rated by the pro's. My first graph had a dip near the top end and Jamie identified what it was just by looking at the graph
Duncan tweaked the map on mine the second time it was on and the car is a different animal now purely because the information received from the dyno gave him an accurate benchmark to work from (if that makes sense)
To be honest you can search any car forum and find a thread comparing one dyno to another with some wildly exaggerated figures no doubt influenced by the dyno operator to keep the customer happy, imo of course.
Personally I have no reservations in recommending Evotune, Duncan and Drew whatsoever, after all they're the experts

helmetchoker wrote:

it was a simple question mate noting more but from your attitude i wont be using you as i expect good customer service and thats not whats being shown here

Thats fine mate cause I wont have you near my garage.

FAO Helmetchoker -Woe woe woe, under no circumstances were we questioning Jamie's integrity here, I have known him an awfully long time and have always found him helpful and very knowledgeable.

I do however question your motive here, as your IP address shows you are in the Bolton area why would you come on a north east subaru forum shouting down one of our local dyno tuners when you wouldn't be using them anyway?

Dont think anyone is questioning Jamies (EvoTune) results/methods/accuracy/consistancy etc, just discussing the differences between two set ups. I personaly think the results for the spec of my car are somewhere between EvoTune and Motorscope. I would be more than happy to use Jamies set up again to measure any future changes to the car as his methods seem to be more reliably done. Motorscope give good paper results but the issue there is how consistant they are. Car goes like stink on the road so not worried at all about the paper print out so long as the tool to do the job is spot on

And edit - Can't fault Jamie on his customer service, good bloke to talk to, very knowledgeable and even lent me an expensive part no questions asked the very first time I met him. Rumour has it he's even looking into buying some coffee mugs and milk

Robbo_22 wrote:

Dont think anyone is questioning Jamies (EvoTune) results/methods/accuracy/consistancy etc, just discussing the differences between two set ups. I personaly think the results for the spec of my car are somewhere between EvoTune and Motorscope. I would be more than happy to use Jamies set up again to measure any future changes to the car as his methods seem to be more reliably done. Motorscope give good paper results but the issue there is how consistant they are. Car goes like stink on the road so not worried at all about the paper print out so long as the tool to do the job is spot on

You got it spot on there mate is all about how the car drives on the road that really matters.

Nail on the head Robbo, don't get me wrong I'd love a bit of paper saying 350bhp and if I was to travel around the country I bet I'd eventually get one near enough
Thinking about it, if someones willing to pay my petrol, dyno fee and a steak pie (maybe 2) for me dinner I'll have a run down to Motorscope to compare graphs. PM me for paypal details

Robbo_22 wrote:

Rumour has it he's even looking into buying some coffee mugs and milk

Now you are pushing the boat out